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RECAP
Mishal Montgomery wants to enhance the common good. Through her work in city government in Anaheim, Mishal traverses the ups and downs of the political landscape because she believes in the systemic change that is wrought through service with the local government. In this episode of the CFWLA Podcast. Mishal shares about her own entry into the political landscape, remembers a professor who reshaped the arc of her career, and outlines why curiosity can be the cure to cynicism in our current political landscape.
Mishal is the principal at Mishal Montgomery Strategies, a public affairs consulting firm she founded in late 2018. Prior to her consulting role, Mishal was a senior public policy advisor in city and county government, serving elected officials in Orange County and the Greater Los Angeles area.
QUOTABLE
On What Others Should Know About Government Workers: (19:42-20:24)
“I think there needs to be a curiosity in how things run and how things are done rather than the tendency we all have—I have it, you have it, we all have it—to be knee-jerk in our thoughts. We go from zero to ten quickly in our assumptions about why a decision was made rather than trying to unpack a bit how a decision was made, whether it was a local school board that made a decision that you didn’t like or your local city council, trying to unpack why something happened and being curious about how it happened.”
On How to Handle Political Conflict With Coworkers and Neighbors: (26:15-26:44)
“I’ve often heard this phrase and I’ve embraced it for my own kind of value system and that is, in my conversations every day that clarity is more important than agreement, and it’s helped guide the way I navigate public policy. It’s understanding what the other person is saying and making it clear and saying it out loud.”
On the Beauty and Goodness of Local Government and Politics: (44:40-45:15)
“I think it’s exciting to see that at the end of the day what we’re all trying to achieve is a version of what we think ought to be for humans, for the human dignity that we all want to strive for. I just love the multi-faceted nature of local government and the satisfaction of seeing good things come to pass and also learning from our mistakes.”
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TRANSCRIPT
Transcription for the Faith + Work LA Podcast is done by AI software, which will occasionally include typos and other misspellings.
Mishal Montgomery
Yeah, I would say gratitude. But I would also say curiosity. I think there needs to be a curiosity and how things run and how things are done and rather than a, then the tendency we all have I have it you have we all have that to be knee jerk in our thoughts. We go from zero to 10. Quickly in our assumptions about why a decision was made, rather than kind of trying to unpack a bit, how a decision was made, whether it's a local school board that made a decision that you didn't like, or your local city council, trying to unpack why something happened and being curious about how it happened.
Gage Arnold
Hello, and welcome to the Faith and Work LA Podcast, a narrative effort from the Center for Faith + Work Los Angeles that lifts up stories of everyday Christians impacting la through their daily work. My name is gage Arnold, and I'll be your host. In this episode, we hear from Michelle Montgomery. Michelle is the principal of Michelle Montgomery strategies, public affairs consulting firm she founded in late 2018. Prior to her consulting role, Michelle was a senior public policy adviser in city and county government serving elected officials in Orange County in the greater Los Angeles area, and Michelle wants to enhance the common good. Through her work in city government in Anaheim. Michelle traverses the ups and downs of the political landscape because she believes in the systemic change that is wrought through service with the local government. In this episode of the faith and work Li podcast, Michelle shares about her entry into the political landscape remembers that professor who reshaped the arc of her career, and outlines why curiosity can be a cure to cynicism in our current political landscape. I really enjoyed this time with Michelle, and I'm sure you'll benefit from her wisdom as well. We're honored to have Michelle joining us, we hope you enjoy the conversation. I would love and this is something I've asked folks who have been on the podcast in the past, it's just a good starting point is just to have you take me through your career arc, you know, I'll, I'll make sure that you're introduced on the front end, like I'll give a bit of a background of kind of what you've done. So you don't have to necessarily go through everything in Super detail, but maybe just a Could you take me through like a truncated version of how you got to be kind of weird. You are and then what you specifically do now in your day to day work?
Mishal Montgomery
Sure. So I in college, I was a business under administration undergrad, and I had a there was a political science professor who actually had my older sister in a lot of his classes. And he really kind of mentored me in my undergrad program and encouraged me to consider a public policy master's degree after I finished my college degree and I was interning and in downtown Los Angeles for a business and enjoying it. But what he prompted me to really compelled me because he told me about the difference between local government where he happened to be a city councilman in a local city, and taught political science and he shared with me that a lot of you know, business acumen is needed. in government and local government, because you're making decisions every day, for the good of an organization, and you're dealing with the public finance and the trust of the people, and you're making business decisions, but local government was where it's at that dealing with things like in Sacramento or in Washington, could be very getting things done could be very elusive, difficult, but in local government, city and county government, you could get a lot done and achieve things that people see resolved every day. And so that was really interesting to me. And so he, I did apply to a grad, a graduate program and got my master's in public policy. And during that time, I had an opportunity to again through this professor and then also through my church, a friend of mine, encouraged me to interview a gal who worked in public affairs. And so I got an opportunity while I was in grad school. to work on a local city council and mayor's election, while going to grad school, those were both successful elections. And then after grad school, I, again through the connections I made through these jobs that I had had an opportunity to work for a county supervisor in Los Angeles and found that the advice of my professor actually rang true. Working in county government, I was able to every day every week every month, work for the things that people relied on every day good roads, good land use planning. A proper way to navigate the complex, you know, things that we rely on every day water quality, trash and recycle of recyclable materials. You know, welfare, social welfare, health care. And then again increasingly in the last 1520 years homelessness and how to best serve those who found themselves at the edges of our society. And so those things all compelled me and so I was very engaged in counting government and advisor on transportation issues and a lot of land juice and ran a field office working with two areas that had never become cities, large communities that had never become municipalities. And so I was kind of their local mayor, if you will, getting a lot of fun things achieved for the communities in which I served on behalf of the County Supervisor and I serve to county supervisors and then went on to as I got married and had a family had an opportunity to work part time in a large city in Orange County and had an opportunity to start working for a mayor there as a policy advisor. And so left the county we started working in a large city And went on to work for two mayor's as a chief of staff to the mayor of that city. So it was exciting for me to kind of see the fruition of that Professor in my undergrad who actually helped me see things in a way and that has led me to the career that I have, which is, you know, public policy getting things done every day that people touch see feel, that leads to a better quality of life in the community that we live in. So I love local government because it whether it's, you know, water, air quality, health care, roads, land use planning, you know, even obviously, schools, but the environment that we live in is affected every day, but the decisions we make in our cities and counties and then it's all guided by the rule of law. So I've enjoyed, vast, you know, immensely enjoyed the field that I'm in. Because every day it's different. And there's a multifaceted aspect to public policy. You're dealing with all the issues that I just mentioned, every day and you're dealing with the competing ideas that come with each issue. how best to serve the common good, how best to advance the common good for people. Yeah. in that in that debate over ideas. You're dealing with human beings, you're dealing with assumptions about what's in the best interest of the people. And you're trying to persuade and advance ideas that you believe will best serve the people in your constituency. So I, I've enjoyed that. And it's, you know, it's been immensely satisfying. Yeah. And then I would just add that that's what led me then when my The mayor termed out and I've been termed out with him. It led me to pursue working as my, you know, as a consultant, starting my own consultancy, advising businesses and organizations, nonprofits and what have you on how to best navigate municipalities and county government in Southern California. So that's, that's where I am today.
Gage Arnold
Yeah, that's a long winding road with lots of lots of sort of fortuitous encounters and conversations that, as you sort of keep pulling the thread have led you to kind of I think you said like, sort of how to best serve the common good. It seems like that's always been kind of a driving force in your life as you think about your work is that you've been driven to think about how do you create a better world, for yourself and for those that are around you through it, you do.
Mishal Montgomery
Right.
Gage Arnold
Yeah. I would love if you had a chance to speak to that professor at all and let them know the impact that they had on you.
Mishal Montgomery
Yeah, actually, it's funny that you mentioned that I actually have been thinking about him a lot. And I reached out to him this last summer and I took him out to lunch. And I, I told him my story, and about was the one that led me to the career that I've been in in the last 20 years. And he was just tickled by that. And we really just had a wonderful time together, talking about public policy. He's been a longtime council member, he stayed on the council until just recently, he retired. But it was just wonderful talking to him about Los Angeles and the county and all the opportunities that has afforded me and I think of all the countless other students he's probably encouraged as well. But yeah, so I was able to, to, you know, tell him about how grateful I was for him. And for his mentoring of me and taking an interest in me. So that's so that's so neat to see just sort of conversations like that that can be used and sort of nudge the snowball down the hill and just see how that can change someone's life. Career arc. I don't know if he necessarily knew that that's what he was doing whenever he was encouraging you that direction, or if you'd even take him up on it and go that direction, but through Yeah. Yeah, it's been interesting because I've tried to do that with a lot of other undergraduate students in the years since, yeah. And graduate students and other people I meet and trying to try to take his kindness and pay that forward. And with others because he you know, he did, he did what we all hope a mentor will do. He looked me in the eye He engaged me he saw kind of my interests my, the qualities that made me tick and what interested me on campus and, and then suggested things that would help me flourish in my career path based on you know, kind of all those sets of things that he saw. And I tried to do that too with other students that I see that there's great opportunities out there to align kind of what you do what makes you tick, what makes what you're passionate about and what you're good at. And finding that right that you know, kind of that perfect fit for what arena you should be in and the job you profession you should pursue. And he did that for me and, and that was a kindness. He did it with no expectation of anything in return, which is a definition of kindness, right?
Gage Arnold
You kind of touched on this a little bit, but I would love to hear what Specifically is kind of drawn you back to government and politics. And now that you mentioned, this professor was very influential in your the work that you're doing now and the work you've done in the past in the sort of government politics sector. But yeah, maybe just talk a little more about what, what's drawn you in what's been inviting, and sort of a prospect of hope for you as you work in government in politics.
Mishal Montgomery
Yeah, I think what really draws me in is the multi faceted nature of local government. As I mentioned, you're dealing with so many different issues that affect our everyday quality of life, you're dealing with things like roads, you know, the width of streets, the construction, transportation ideas, whether it's buses, rail, highways, you know, the future of tolling in Southern California, for instance, all those ideas, you're dealing with land, use Parks and Recreation, open space trails, water quality air quality, trash and recyclables and the future of how we manage waste. All the things that you know. And I guess I would also say all within the context of a democracy of representative democracy, where we are the governed, and we are the we we are governing. So, decisions that we all make, whether we make them overtly through electing our local elected officials or we were we make them tacitly whether, because we don't participate in government things also happen. Those are all very fascinating to me and the opportunity to affect change in those local areas. really keeps me going and it as I mentioned earlier, t gauges why I read the newspaper. I read several newspapers every day. I'd like the world of ideas and the laws that shape our government and how we can influence those issues. And how taking an issue like, you know, homelessness, which is one of the biggest crises of our time, but it comes down to policy, but it also comes down to the human need we all have for connection. Homelessness is ground zero for that the lack of social connection and social infrastructure among people who find themselves homeless, and how we can navigate and create better systems to help and homelessness. That's a huge public policy issue in Southern California. And I get to be a part of helping in you know, impact, positive change in that direction. So through local government, you know, can you find that most folks who you would work with
Gage Arnold
Maybe your constituents would see the work that you would be doing in that light. Or maybe where there are some misunderstandings about, like, what you're doing and what's good and right about government. Or kind of what was that? Yeah, well for you?
Mishal Montgomery
Well, that's a good question. I think I think the enemy of all of the things that I've mentioned is cynicism. Hmm, as, as a society, we've become very cynical. And there and in that cynicism, there's a, there's a dismissiveness where we all have it, I have it, I'm cynical, I'm, you know, I can I tend to be cynical. And then there's kind of the the efforts that we all try to take every day to try to just do what's good and right, despite our own inner cynicism, our own innate cynicism, and so I think That's the most common misunderstood thing is people were cynical. So we don't necessarily see that what local government is trying to achieve is working. And so we tend to then be dismissive of that action and get more cynical. And I think the antidote to that is to keep striving and to keep reaching out to make a difference. And I, I, you know, just want to point out a lot of us, especially, we think about politics, and we think about maybe the national politics are at our, at our state level, something that we read about that catches the attention and the national consciousness but what we miss in that is we miss all the things that are happening every day, the hundreds of thousands of decisions that are made every day in our city and our county, that where we can actually affect change and the ability of one person to influence a decision of local council member, or local city manager or local county supervisor is very impactful. And a lot of times I found because I've worked in local government, my whole career, I found that people don't realize how impactful it is when they reach out to their local government, ask for certain things to be done or express their opinion it's very powerful. And partly because not enough people do it. So, the more it the more that if you hear from 10 people on an issue in local government, it becomes a mandate. Hmm, in the in, in, in many, you know, arenas, not always but it can become a mandate if you want to stop sign on your you know, on a major corridor and 10 people write to the mayor about needing a Stop sign, because we haven't heard from 10 people on an issue like that before it suddenly is elevated as a message to us that there needs to be a stop sign or at least a stop sign study needs to be taken to see if it merits a stop sign that intersection America stop sign. So those are that's an example of people are too easily dismissive. We're or we're too cynical for our own good. And sometimes we miss the opportunity to get things done because of our own innate cynicism. Rather than being you know, seeing something with a glass half full. And seeing that there's an opportunity I have to at least express something I would like to see changed. And the other thing I would say is people underestimate the power of a gentle kind, articulate a mode of communication with their government. When people are respectful, articulate, and thoughtful and generous in their speaking. It is very well received by the people on the other side, it's just because we're all human beings. So at the end of the day, if you speak in all caps in an email, or raise your voice or insult someone, you're less likely to be heard in your own family, with your own circle of friends, and certainly with your government, those who engage the person in government and say, I'd like to speak with you, or here's something that I noticed and by the way, I appreciate your service. But I'd like to understand what happened with this decision or how can we engage on this issue in a way that makes us understand how this is achieving the common good for our neighborhood or for our city or for our county. Those things whether the opposite whether the government responds properly or not, those are all very good things to be able To learn how to communicate well, and to speak in a way that is, is not hostile, gentle, and communicates well. clarity, clarity is so important in this in like the arena that I work on.
Gage Arnold
Yeah. So when you think of like what you would hope that constituents embody in the ways that they participate in local government, is it maybe embracing are sort of cultivating humility and gratitude in the ways that they engage in the process and maybe think more local rather than thinking maybe so macro and that being their idea of what political engagement looks like, which, as you noted, can feel kind of fruitless or sometimes it just moves at a slower pace. But that may be starting with gratitude for those who are serving your local needs in a government perspective and then entering in there as a good starting point.
Mishal Montgomery
Yeah, I would say I would say gratitude. But I would also say curiosity. I think there needs to be curiosity and how things run and how things are done. And rather than a than the tendency we all have I have it you have we all have that to be knee jerk in our thoughts. We go from zero to 10. Quickly, in our assumptions about why a decision was made, rather than kind of trying to unpack a bit, how a decision was made, whether it's a local school board that made a decision that you didn't like, or your local city council, trying to unpack why something happened and being curious about how it happened. And I think people are much more open to receive you if you say can you explain to me how unpack for me a bit how this happened, how did this decision get made? What am I missing? Is it a budgetary issue? Because a lot of times fiscal issues are what drive decisions. But also, you know, there's all sorts of other things that are underlying there might be a personnel issue, a power struggle, and things like that, but having curiosity and how things work. And yes, it's a measure of humility and understanding. I don't have all the answers, nor does the person I'm asking. But if we seek understanding and to understand each other's frame of reference assumptions behind the decisions they made, then perhaps we can achieve clarity on why a decision was made or decision might be made. And I think even temperedness is another thing I strive for. I strive for that every day and being temperate in my responses and in my reactions to things and And we live in an age where that's not necessarily rewarded. But it's the right thing because you achieve so much more if you try to gain understanding of what does the other person what is the other person thinking and what, why are they making the decisions they're making? You know, I think, humility, but also curiosity and, and I would also say humor, you know, humor and a light a lightness to how we communicate. Or? Well, I think, I think I I think about, you know, many, many people over the years that I, you know, I've represented for elected officials in my career. And the one that the decided disagreements we had with many, many, many occasions with people on the opposite side, whether it was other council members or other constituent groups. What always was the great equalizer was a sense of humor. about things, common things, everyday things, and finding areas of commonality that we had breaking bread with someone. And, you know, I think of we, I might the mayor, I represented a mayor who had a very different a big difference of opinion with a council member on the big picture political ideas on what was best for the common good. But he became one of our closest friends. And even though we had very distinct differences on our assumptions on the role of government, and the common good, we found areas of commonality and a way to have a sense of humor about things that allowed us to talk with each other. And then in talking with each other because we had, we would be able to talk in a light way about things both of both parties, it afforded the ability than to bring up areas of disagreement in a way that was light and, and gentle, but also opened up lines of communication that weren't there before. Because we were had, we had already established a platform of how to talk, how to communicate, where we, you know, we saw the other, the others humanity. And we saw, we appeal to things that were common whether we had a bite to eat together, we shared what was happening in our person, on our families, with our kids with school and things like that common areas, and it opened up lines of communication. I think too often, people on opposite views, they don't communicate with each other well, they just speak maybe on a social media platform with each other. And then the whole line of communication is breached. That makes it more difficult if you don't really relate to each other. And I think humor is a common way that we can. We can open up lines of communication with others.
Gage Arnold
That's such a rich point that I do not know that I had ever considered. And yet, the more that you kept sharing, the more that I kept thinking, yeah, that's that's that is really true. There certainly are times where lightning, the intensity that can often surround very highly politicized just topics and conversation points, certainly can create a common ground for the common good, which is a lot what you were sort of alluding to and I think that's, that is made possible, especially when you have at the heart of what you're sort of your common ground being that there's dignity and humanity and the person that's sitting across from you, even if they may different opinions or have a different worldview or a different story than you, but remembering what you do share in common. And knowing that you want to create sort of flourishing for them as much as you would for yourself. Right. And if you can sort of discharge, sort of having even temperedness, about things that you do care about. So it's not that you separate yourself from those good and right emotions, but you're able to put them in their right place and remember what's actually important. So then you can actually engage rather than sort of just miss connecting and miscommunicating with those who you're, you know, engaged with or you're working with.
Mishal Montgomery
Right. You often hear, I've often heard this phrase, and I just I embraced it for my own kind of value system, and that is, in my conversations every day that clarity is more important than agreement, and it helps guide a lot of the way I navigate public policy is understanding what the other person is saying. And making it clear, maybe saying it out loud. And, again, achieving clarity on what, what they're thinking, what their aim is, what their focus for the common good is that helps you navigate. Well, this is my idea of the common good. But I see where we disagree, I see that no more clearly, because I didn't realize that you were looking at this factor or that factor in seeing that that is an achievable goal. I don't necessarily agree that the path to that goal is the same or can be achieved, but I understand where you're coming from. And, again, with a light touch and with humor, you can often find areas that you can agree on and achieve a common path for you know, yeah, well, I'm Might not gain your vote on this issue, but I get where you're coming from and make perhaps we can work on something else together. That is something we can achieve.
Gage Arnold
There's lots of curiosity embedded in the way that you were describing and sort of sharing just now to which I think if that was, that's, that's a good attribute to cultivate. I mean, I think for anybody who may be hearing this or just considering their own political engagement, just certainly, I mean, even just with conversations with your neighbor, to be able to be curious about why they believe what they believe if they differ from you, or even if they agree with you, sort of that I think that's a good defining character trait for just healthy engagement in the world, and healthy care for your neighbor and those who are placed in your path. So I think there's certainly some Goodness Goodness there. I want to Pivot just a little bit. And we've kind of touched on some of this stuff. But I would love to know, I mean, you work so directly in government and politics, and I'm sure you see the beautiful aspects of it, where it's working, right. And you also see the dysfunctional frustrating aspects of it, where it feels like it's not working. Right. And so could you maybe touch on as somebody who's directly in the field, share maybe some aspects of what's good and right about government and politics, because you're gonna speak to like a local element, but then also maybe what's broken or just in need of repair. That kind of presses up against you in politics as well.
Mishal Montgomery
Sure, I, you know, I think the things that are good and right are the things that are your politics is trying to achieve, which is Something for the good of all, you know, a social good, that achieves a better quality of life for the constituent, the person that they are aim to serve. And the competing ideas about how to achieve that. I think government and political politics in particular public policy aims to discuss what ought to be. And that word ought, you know, is is what's obviously rife with, you know, tension. What is the right what is the good and I you know, I was reading the Wall Street Journal this morning about in Paris, France, there's big protests about pension reform that the government is trying to achieve, as altering the age at which one can retire in France from the age of 42, which is the law of the land 42 and it's several hundred years old. And they're trying to stretch that to 62 huh. And there are walks of life like people who are, you know, women and men who are in the ballet, who are have been in the ballet since they were 10 or 11 years old. And they're looking at retirement at 42 because they can't dance anymore in their 50s and later. So you see right there the tension of a government who is trying to achieve a quality of life for all France that would allow for the flourishing of a society so that we can afford to France can afford to provide for its seniors for centuries to come. And the only way to achieve that mathematically To stretch out the retirement age, and that's a mathematical issue. But you see the tension that creates for the current ballet dancer. Yeah. who cannot doesn't see a future where they can where they can work in the ballet in their 40s and 50s. So therein lies the tension of how government tries to achieve, again, clarity. what is really going on here? What does the math say? How can we achieve the good? How can we achieve the good for all of those constituents that we all agree that we want the best for the flourishing of each member of the French society. But we see that we can't get there under the current conditions. It will lead to incredible poverty if we don't change something, but you can see the opportunity here for both sides to achieve understanding. You can see the need for the government to have understanding of what a ballet dancer is getting. Through, and perhaps maybe some training and some other careers that can be pursued post ballet, what comes up, you can see some opportunities for some policy changes there. But you can also see some clarity that's needed, on how the math works. And how you can achieve something for the good of the common man that doesn't hurt future generations but only but helps future generations. So what I love about public policy is it really challenges you to engage all of your mind your the quantitative and the qualitative sides of things. Yeah. And it encourages you to take the long view. So with issues like pensions and careers and work, it encourages you to say okay, in 30 years, what will this decision do in 50 years, what will this decision do and in five years, what would this decision do and what I that's what I love about public policy is it It engages your whole mind. And it engages your creative function to is what are some creative solutions that we could have to achieve the common good for the you know, you profile the ballet dancer, but you also profile the 10 year old now that needs to be able to have a life when he or she is 60. So, those are the things that engage me every day is taking on all these policy issues taking the long view, what is this decision? How will this decision benefit the eight year old living in my city? Um, you know, how was this decision impact me what's what's proper and right. And sometimes we ignore and only look at the long view and we dismiss the current person that it's affecting, and sometimes we only look at the short view Short, you know, the immediate and we fail to see the long term ramifications of the decision we're making. And there's faults, you know, there's faults on both on every side of an argument. And again, clarity, humor, you know, all of those things gaining understanding about someone, someone's perspective, and sitting in a room and engaging and talking about it. Yeah, is understated. It's, you know, it's, it needs to be done more. Mm hmm. And I've experienced that time and time again, where two polarized groups have never spoken to each other. They literally have never spoken to each other. They go on social media and they talk and then the amazing things that happen when you get to a you know, to people on opposing sides together in a room, and you break bread together and you talk and amazing things that can be achieved.
Gage Arnold
Wow, I think I'm just so struck by the complexity of spinning plates that revolve around working, and especially, I mean any sort of public policy around but especially, you know, local and national realms, you know, you're weighing so much and you kind of spoke to this with the quantitative and qualitative, you're kind of balancing a lot of needs. And so you're having to think very creatively and engage all of your faculties and thinking through how does this create benefit for the need that has brought this to my desk right now? Yeah, but also for the ramifications that this decision ultimately will hold 20, 30 40, 50 years from now, and that's a lot. That's a lot to consider. And certainly there's a there's some ease in the having a knee jerk reaction and saying, Well, I'm outraged because this isn't what I want now. You know, I think we kind of spoke earlier before we hopped on our call about how that's certainly a defining mark of our culture in this moment is that there's sort of a, you know, we want to emotionally we want to like emote our decision immediately and then think about it later, rather than flipping things around. But I think it's just even just engendering some perspective and humility on my own and thinking through those who have served me without my you know, sort of implicitly without me even knowing to help make my life Work and function well, and how complex of a job that it is to be a public servant in this realm, too. And how often thankless it can be is to think through all the complex decisions. And then often the voices that you hear the most probably tend to be the ones who are not happy. Right on both sides that they didn't quite get their way. So
Mishal Montgomery
Right, the beauty of my work, I find friends, for instance, is providing clarity to the public, as something I've enjoyed for many, many years. And when the light bulb goes on when you see the light bulb Go on, in their mind on an idea or an issue that they hadn't, you know, bringing in a new stream of consciousness on something like homelessness, for instance and explaining how it how a homeless person navigates, you know, the web governments and issues and how a homeless person might find themselves to be homeless, and the conditions and the multifaceted aspects of life that have led them there. But then how it's not, you know, one city's fault, one elected officials fault, one government's fault. It's a complex range of things that lead to that person being homeless, including, perhaps a family dynamic, broken home, perhaps no home and a complex web of circumstances and events that have happened to make that person homeless. And then when I understand helping a for instance, I've helped you know, countless men and women in a city understand how how homelessness works in a city and county government, where the funds come from how things are unpacked. And then when the light bulb goes on that most people don't understand that most City Council's especially for instance, in California, you 99% of city councils are part time. And most of them work for about 18 to $20,000 a year and have other gainful employment or not. And they choose to serve on their city council. And stay up until very late in the night for a city council meeting, reading the items of hopefully on the agenda, understanding an issue and then voting on an issue. So they're just like us, as a representative government. We've elected them to try to do their best. And most people don't understand that they think of they put all of government or politics in one camp and fail to understand that we are a democracy. We are a representative democracy. So we are the governed and we are the ones that govern by electing these men and women to serve us, but we are a reflection of them. And so the more we engage on these things, issues and unpack understanding how the how did we get here the more we're going to achieve for the common good and the more good things will happen. So, I've seen, you know, homeless counts go way down and cities that have taken the trouble to try to understand and unpack it and try to achieve some good, good policy. I've seen some I've seen, you know, decided improvements on those that issue based on human beings getting together and achieving a decision that benefits that's that city.
Gage Arnold
I'm sure that has to be so encouraging to in terms of your work is getting to, I think, many of us whatever our work may be, certainly know the feeling of chipping away at a large project. Or just a something that's bigger than just a singular task, and not often getting to see the results of the work that we put in or maybe only seeing incremental change or something along those lines and have to imagine it's probably encouraging for you and to get to see those moments of growth or development or seeing a policy that you've written, that you've really thought long and hard about. You've sought insight and input from both sides. And then to be able to implement it and see the fruits of that and actually having some systemic change. Probably has to give you a bit of encouragement to keep pressing in on some of the times when that isn't always the case. Absolutely.
Mishal Montgomery
Yeah. presses me forward to see all sorts of examples of how just getting engaged on something and being intentional on something and achieving something and the Free to that it's been very fine. It's why is this in this realm? So? Hmm,
Gage Arnold
That's good stuff. Well, I want to be sensitive to your time. And so as we kind of close, I have one sort of final question. And we've been touching on it in various ways throughout our conversation. But I'd love to know, what is your hope for what government can look like? And that that is probably what fuels your engagement now and what you do. And you've I know, you've mentioned the common good and its advancement a lot. So I'd imagine that's probably a piece of it. But yeah, just as we wrap up, what's your hope for what government can be?
Mishal Montgomery
Well, I think, I think for me, my hope is that good decisions can be made in a way that achieves societal good And that respects the human dignity that, you know, those in local government are trying to achieve. And I think it's important to remember that a decision made today, you know, whatever it is good or bad. We tend to, we tend to sometimes turn off the switch and shut down if a decision doesn't go our way, for instance, or if a decision does go our way, we think we've achieved it, and we're, we can check the box and move on. And that's just not the way government is. It's always changing. It's always adapting to the times. And there's, you know, always opportunity to, for something to change that we hadn't expected, the unexpected can drive change. And so what I love about government is it's always About people. And it's in a democracy and like America with the rule of law that governs us. I think that that's exciting to see that at the end of the day, what we're all trying to achieve is a version of what we think ought to be for, for humans, for the human dignity that we all want to strive for. And so I just love the multi faceted nature of local government and the the satisfaction of seeing good things come to pass. And then also learning from our mistakes learning from, you know, we tried it this way. And we tried it for 510 years, and it just hasn't seemed to move the needle. Let's tweak it a bit. And let's try this. And let's do it this way. We think this is better and sometimes we you know, You have a vote that's achieved and you think it's wrong because you don't think it's better, then, you know, it's democracy is this great experiment, you know where you're, you are, you're trying something that you think is better. And you may or may not achieve that, but you're again, you're everyone's trying to try to achieve a quality of life, for human flourishing. And how you see the definition of human flourishing can be different. But at the end of the day, it's all about humans and, and trying to make things better for them. You're trying your best, and I just love the fact that we are in a democracy, where with the rule of law, so where you know, we, we consider corruption, a dishonor. We consider the rule of law and doing things ethically as an honor. That's what we still strive for in this country. And I come from my parents come from a country that you know, isn't that isn't priced in But as much so I find I find that to be something I can embrace. As somebody who is first generation in America. I find that very satisfying.
Gage Arnold
Welcome back. We hope you enjoyed our conversation with Michelle. And this is our last conversation of season one the Faith + Work LA Podcast. But we'll be back in the studio soon to work on upcoming resources to help you reimagine your vocation to reshape culture in Los Angeles and beyond. As always, if you'd like to take the conversation further, feel free to visit faithandwork la.com to find events, programs, resources, videos, blogs, designed to help you reimagine your own work with the gospel in mind. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you soon.